BAA and toll roads

Discussion:

BAA and toll roads

(too old to reply)

Herman R. Silbiger

2006-06-06 22:11:11 UTC

We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for the
roads.

Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.

Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to cut
taxes people will vote for them.

Herman

RWM

2006-06-07 01:33:15 UTC

Permalink

How about the proposals to create toll roads out of facilities
originally built with federal and state funds, some on right of way that
was very likely acquired via eminent domain, the various Macquarrie et
al purchase and lease back (via user fee/toll) proposals?

The selling point is reduced state taxes associated with maintenance and
unfunded federal mandates.

As you suggest, a winner, until people realize what it costs them long
term.

- RWM

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for the
roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to cut
taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

Allan9

2006-06-07 02:44:36 UTC

Permalink

Herman
I'd like to discuss one of your statements.
The Ohio Turnpike was built by revenue bond issues. Not one cent of
taxpayer money was used to build, operate and/or maintain it.
All funding comes from the tolls (we) paid not from taxes. The Ohio
Turnpike Commission operates it.
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Herman R. Silbiger" <***@comcast.net>
To: <***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for the
roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have found
that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to cut taxes
people will vote for them.
Herman

Herman R. Silbiger

2006-06-07 04:14:47 UTC

Permalink

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
Herman
I'd like to discuss one of your statements.
The Ohio Turnpike was built by revenue bond issues. Not one cent of
taxpayer money was used to build, operate and/or maintain it.
All funding comes from the tolls (we) paid not from taxes. The Ohio
Turnpike Commission operates it.
Al
----- Original Message ----- From: "Herman R. Silbiger"
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.

Herman

Herman R. Silbiger

2006-06-07 04:15:23 UTC

Permalink

Almost agree
The Ohio Turnpike was built on the Commissions' initiative before the
Interstate System existed. It technically is not part of our
Interstate system. Airports as an example are all built by and with
tax payer money.
Al
-

Railroads used to build their own stations. That's not so easy with
airports, since there is not enough room for an airport for each
airline. In some airports, like JFK many airlines built their own terminal.

We must not forget that in the 10th century railroad construction n the
west was subsidized by land grants.

Herman

David R

2006-06-07 04:40:41 UTC

Permalink

No railroad was subsidized in the 10th century. They were, however
subsidized 800 years later.

David R
http://home.comcast.net/~damiross/books.html
www.sequoians.com

We must not forget that in the 10th century railroad construction n the
west was subsidized by land grants.

Herman

Alireza Alivandivafa

2006-06-07 05:58:07 UTC

Permalink

Bus lines, airlines and car drivers are just as, if not more subsidized, by the US government. You think those highways just popped up for free?

-----Original Message-----
From: David R <***@comcast.net>
To: ***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Sent: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:40:21 -0700
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

No railroad was subsidized in the 10th century. They were, however
subsidized 800 years later.

David R
http://home.comcast.net/~damiross/books.html
www.sequoians.com

We must not forget that in the 10th century railroad construction n the
west was subsidized by land grants.

Herman
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

RWM

2006-06-07 15:34:02 UTC

Permalink

It may start there, but there is also talk out here of doing so with the
Long Island Expressway (I-495) and others, to reduce state debt.

- RWM

If I'm not mistaken I think you'll find the turnpikes they are talking
about are quasi-privately owned roadways not the Interstate system as we
know it. Examples would be the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Turnpike.
Pennsylvania Turnpike and possibly the Illinois Turnpike(s).
Al
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay
for the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise
to cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

David MR

2006-06-07 15:34:07 UTC

Permalink

Weren't these all built under the premise that there would be tolls until the bonds used to build them were paid off? Just like the the idiotic politicians said the tolls would apply to the Golden Gate and other San Francisco area bridges just until the bonds were paid off. That, my dear friend, happened years ago yet the tolls are not only still here but are increasing again.
David R
Becuase it's off topic, I will shut up about this now.

-------------- Original message ----------------------

If I'm not mistaken I think you'll find the turnpikes they are talking about
are quasi-privately owned roadways not the Interstate system as we know it.
Examples would be the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Turnpike. Pennsylvania Turnpike
and possibly the Illinois Turnpike(s).
Al
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

Allan9

2006-06-07 15:48:33 UTC

Permalink

Enjoyed the off-topic discussion.
Can't speak for other ones but the Ohio Turnpike ones were paid off early
ans reissued to widen it from two to three lanes in each direction. The
raised tolls and forced? trucks off the turnpike onto taxpayer funded funds.
Accidents and fatalities increased dramatically. Tolls were lowered. SOme
trucks came back
As I said I enjoyed it.

Now you want to talk about runways, taxiways etc.?
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "David MR" <***@comcast.net>
To: <***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by David MR
Weren't these all built under the premise that there would be tolls until
the bonds used to build them were paid off? Just like the the idiotic
politicians said the tolls would apply to the Golden Gate and other San
Francisco area bridges just until the bonds were paid off. That, my dear
friend, happened years ago yet the tolls are not only still here but are
increasing again.
David R
Becuase it's off topic, I will shut up about this now.
-------------- Original message ----------------------

If I'm not mistaken I think you'll find the turnpikes they are talking about
are quasi-privately owned roadways not the Interstate system as we know it.
Examples would be the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Turnpike. Pennsylvania Turnpike
and possibly the Illinois Turnpike(s).
Al
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

RWM

2006-06-07 15:33:53 UTC

Permalink

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

Allan9

2006-06-07 15:33:55 UTC

Permalink

If I'm not mistaken I think you'll find the turnpikes they are talking about
are quasi-privately owned roadways not the Interstate system as we know it.
Examples would be the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Turnpike. Pennsylvania Turnpike
and possibly the Illinois Turnpike(s).
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "RWM" <***@RWMann.com>
To: <***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

David MR

2006-06-07 15:33:39 UTC

Permalink

I know they are subsidized indirectly. However, I was just pointing out that he mentioned the railroads being subsidized in the 10th century when he meant the 19th century. (Actually, I got it wrong, too. I should have said 900, not 800, years later)

David R
-------------- Original message ----------------------

Post by Alireza Alivandivafa
Bus lines, airlines and car drivers are just as, if not more subsidized, by the
US government. You think those highways just popped up for free?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:40:21 -0700
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads
No railroad was subsidized in the 10th century. They were, however
subsidized 800 years later.
David R
http://home.comcast.net/~damiross/books.html
www.sequoians.com
We must not forget that in the 10th century railroad construction n the
west was subsidized by land grants.
Herman
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
All on demand. Always Free.

Alireza Alivandivafa

2006-06-09 18:07:19 UTC

Permalink

The Ohio Turnpike is part of the Interstate system (I-80) and is owned by the Ohio Turnpike Commission, which is a state agency

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan9 <***@neo.rr.com>
To: ***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:07:15 -0400
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

If I'm not mistaken I think you'll find the turnpikes they are talking about
are quasi-privately owned roadways not the Interstate system as we know it.
Examples would be the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Turnpike. Pennsylvania Turnpike
and possibly the Illinois Turnpike(s).
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "RWM" <***@RWMann.com>
To: <***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Alireza Alivandivafa

2006-06-09 18:06:00 UTC

Permalink

The Ohio Turnpike is a chargable interstate which means it is eligible for 90% funding by the federal government. Further, tolls are taxation, just with a different name

-----Original Message-----
From: RWM <***@RWMann.com>
To: ***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:43:42 -0400
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

Except we may soon have toll roads due to the sale and lease-back via
tolls and user fees of roads originally built with federal, state and
local funds, whose right of way may even have been acquired via emminent
domain.

- RWM
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Allan9

2006-06-09 18:43:06 UTC

Permalink

Q. Why do I have to pay a toll to use the Ohio Turnpike when I already
pay taxes?

A. The maintenance, operation and security of the Ohio Turnpike are
funded almost exclusively through tolls - NOT TAXES. Your taxes pay for
other roads and interstates, not the Turnpike. The Ohio Turnpike receives NO
federal funding and only a small portion of state tax ($. 05 per gallon from
gasoline purchased ONLY at service stations on the Turnpike.) (Note: The
small portion of state tax money received by the Turnpike Commission is
specifically allocated to the maintenance and repairs of the bridges and
overpasses that are state routes.) Turnpike tolls serve as a user fee and
only those who use the Turnpike pay for it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alireza Alivandivafa" <***@aol.com>
To: <***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Alireza Alivandivafa
The Ohio Turnpike is a chargable interstate which means it is eligible for
90% funding by the federal government. Further, tolls are taxation, just
with a different name
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:43:42 -0400
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

Except we may soon have toll roads due to the sale and lease-back via
tolls and user fees of roads originally built with federal, state and
local funds, whose right of way may even have been acquired via emminent
domain.
- RWM
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and
IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Allan9

2006-06-09 18:47:41 UTC

Permalink

http://www.landlinemag.com/archives/1998/november_98/G_Alan_Plain.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alireza Alivandivafa" <***@aol.com>
To: <***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Alireza Alivandivafa
The Ohio Turnpike is part of the Interstate system (I-80) and is owned by
the Ohio Turnpike Commission, which is a state agency
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:07:15 -0400
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads
If I'm not mistaken I think you'll find the turnpikes they are talking
about
are quasi-privately owned roadways not the Interstate system as we know
it.
Examples would be the Ohio Turnpike, Indiana Turnpike. Pennsylvania
Turnpike
and possibly the Illinois Turnpike(s).
Al
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and
IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Allan9

2006-06-09 18:45:33 UTC

Permalink

Q. How is the Ohio Turnpike Commission (OTC) different from the Ohio
Department of Transportation (ODOT)?

A. The OTC is a separate organization from ODOT. The Commission
handles all matters pertaining to the 241-mile toll road, while ODOT is run
by the state of Ohio and has many district offices that handle matters for
other routes and interstates throughout Ohio.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alireza Alivandivafa" <***@aol.com>
To: <***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Herman R. Silbiger

Post by Herman R. Silbiger
We have toll roads because people don't want to pay taxes to pay for
the roads.
Our infrastructure is crumbling because we don't want to pay for
maintenance.
Don't blame the politicians, blame the voters. The politicians have
found that no matter what they stand for, as long as they promise to
cut taxes people will vote for them.
Herman

That's what I said. "We have toll roads because people don't want to pay
taxes to pay for the roads." You agree with me.
Herman

________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and
IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Alireza Alivandivafa

2006-06-09 19:30:26 UTC

Permalink

ODOT may not run the OTC but the OTC is still state controlled

In a message dated 6/9/2006 1:45:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
***@neo.rr.com writes:
Q. How is the Ohio Turnpike Commission (OTC) different from the Ohio
Department of Transportation (ODOT)?

A. The OTC is a separate organization from ODOT. The Commission
handles all matters pertaining to the 241-mile toll road, while ODOT is run
by the state of Ohio and has many district offices that handle matters for
other routes and interstates throughout Ohio.

Allan9

2006-06-09 19:45:47 UTC

Permalink

OK let's agree to disagree. I would compare it to a Port Authority rather
than a State "controlled" Agency. The State Legislature does not have
oversight nor approval.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alireza Alivandivafa" <***@aol.com>
To: <***@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: BAA and toll roads

Post by Alireza Alivandivafa
ODOT may not run the OTC but the OTC is still state controlled
In a message dated 6/9/2006 1:45:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
Q. How is the Ohio Turnpike Commission (OTC) different from the Ohio
Department of Transportation (ODOT)?
A. The OTC is a separate organization from ODOT. The Commission
handles all matters pertaining to the 241-mile toll road, while ODOT is run
by the state of Ohio and has many district offices that handle matters for
other routes and interstates throughout Ohio.